How to become a FULL TIME Short Form Content Creator ft. Instagram & TikToker @JUSTDODANI
As creators, we can often criticise the rise and domination of short form content. In this episode of the Couch to Creator podcast we interview Swiss Instagram and TikToker @justdodani Daniel Do, and he gives us an authentic perspective of what it's actually like to make short form videos FULL TIME. He tells us how he got started on Instagram, his rapid follower growth and transition to short form videos in 2020. Despite having a huge following, Daniel opens up about the struggle of monetising short content and how he made that leap to becoming a full time creator.
We also breakdown the workload and rewards of creating short form content and whether it is possible to build a community with only short form videos. Huge thanks to Dani for coming on the Couch to Creator Podcast. You can find him probably on your Reels feed if you’re a photographer or filmmaker, or you can search him out here: @justdodani Thanks everyone for watching, listening, whatever you're doing. We're Sal & Bart from TRIO Stories and welcome to the Couch to Creator Podcast - where we hit record on real life conversations about being a Creator. The lifestyle, the career, the wins and defeats - we'll be giving you the know-how, low down, and all the dirty details that we've gained as filmmakers, photographers and business owners. Couch to Creator Podcast: • Couch to Creator Podcast Huge thanks to@Riversidefm for supporting this video and the Couch to Creator Podcast.
If you’re a reader, you can check out this episode of the Couch to Creator Podcast in the transcript below!
TRANSCRIPT
Welcome back. Welcome back to the Couch to Creator podcast. It's Sal and Bart here from Trio Stories. We're here to talk all things creator. The wins, the defeats, the industry, the latest gossip, anything you can think of in the creator world. We're here to talk about it. This week we have a lovely guest with us. Dani whose Instagram handle is @justdodani
Daniel (04:18.124)
Thank you so much for inviting me. Thank you for the awesome intro as well. I'm already blushing
TRIO Stories (04:25.383)
He's a super talented creator, someone that we actually met last year and we're super proud to call a friend. And we can't wait to talk to him about all things short form, but not only that. So Danny, it's so good to have you on the podcast. Welcome.
TRIO Stories (04:46.023)
We're so happy that you've made time to speak to us. Danny, we're so curious to hear your story because we know you were a photographer first, you moved on to video. Now you are sort of, you know, becoming the king of short form. Short form king, yeah.
Daniel (05:01.94)
Yeah, that's a little bit high, like putting me on a high pedestal here.
TRIO Stories (05:13.607)
We love your stuff. Every time we see one of your videos, we're watching it multiple times.
Daniel (05:18.548)
That means a lot. Thank you so much.
TRIO Stories (05:20.935)
So tell us about how it all started because I know you started actually quite recently based on our research, I believe it's around 2019 and yet seeing your following, probably a combined following of around 200 ,000 and then brands such as Amiga, Audi, Asus, LG, you've done some impressive work in those, what, four or five years?
Daniel (05:25.396)
Yeah, it's it's been a long road. It's been a long journey, of course indeed. So yeah, I it's a pretty long story. So I just start in let's say 2019, right? You did your research, right? I just started my Instagram page actually in 2019 with the portrait page. So I mainly shot woman. I don't know. I didn't like to shoot man. So
I shot portraits of women before that. I actually also did some photos of cars because I'm like a car enthusiast. I really like tuning cars and saw these amazing pictures on Instagram and that's why I wanted to get into photography as well. Yeah, and then I shifted into portraits, into persons because I really like to, I don't know, do portraits, but don't do like the usual ones. I really like to... take it to another level to make it special, to make it a little bit surreal, but still realistic. So I had a couple creators I really liked, like Third Eye Vision was one of them, like in the beginning, if you know him. I mean, now he kind of vanished, but he was a really great photographer. He did like the portraits, kind of anime, like blending it in together.
TRIO Stories (07:16.167)
Mmm, nice.
Daniel (07:17.332)
Yeah, really nice. And the other one was liquid verve, Alex, if you know her. She's really great. I think in Los Angeles based, but she's actually German. And I also did like mentoring with her together for half a year or something about portrait photography. Yeah. So actually after three months or so I already took like one -on -one coaching from Julian and also from Alex then. So this helped me really like to bounce things off to get very fast and efficient with editing and photography in general, like with portraits, because I mean, you can learn it by yourself, but if someone sees your work and see how you like actually do the editing and everything and give you feedback, you learn so much faster.
TRIO Stories (08:14.887)
Yeah, definitely. That's actually such a good point. Like we always, from the very beginning, we've always done everything ourselves and it's a much slower progress to develop your skills. And I'm actually, I'm just learning DaVinci now. I'm switching to DaVinci and we've got Sam Colder's course and that's been a game changer for swapping quicker than if I just learned it myself.
Yeah, it's fantastic. But I mean, Danny, this is, I would say quite like a really cool thing that you did because it's quite unusual for people so early on to make that decision to go into like one -to -one coaching and like to really double down with, you know, your creator education, let's say. So what made you kind of decide to do that, to dive in and do that?
Daniel (09:19.7)
So I was because editing everyone does editing differently. I mean, back in the days with Photoshop, with the portrait retouching, most of the people did like either frequency separation or dodge and burn that. I mean, the skin retouching technique. And I learned both. And I was struggling to still get an efficient style that quickly. So I wanted to be like Julian dirt. I vision. I really.
liked his style, so I wanted to learn it from him because he can tell me like how he does it. And that was actually just a one hour, like one on one session. And I watched it and watched it again and again while I was editing new portraits. And then I developed my own style a little bit. So I don't know, I just wanted to invest.
to get faster in something like that. And then most of the people, they don't want to invest at all. They just want to have the free stuff.
TRIO Stories (10:23.879)
Yeah, that's what I was going to ask, because I think our viewers would be really curious. So I'm guessing these were paid courses. So you decided to kind of invest money, but also in a way it's like putting your trust that this is something, a creative direction that you want to pursue. So that's really cool.
Daniel (10:27.892)
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah. And at that time I was actually working in the IT. So this was like, I had shootings almost every weekend scheduled down. Like I just did that stuff for a long time. Like, like my friends always asked me, are you coming out to a party or not? And I was like, no, I want to edit this stuff. I want to publish this stuff on Instagram. And yeah, I sacrificed a lot of. free time, party time, etc.
TRIO Stories (11:13.543)
So it started as, did it start as a hobby, the photography?
Daniel (11:17.364)
Absolutely. Actually, to be honest, I didn't know how to monetize on Instagram for a long time. Even though I had a big following afterwards, I still worked in companies for a long time before I utilizing that. Yeah.
TRIO Stories (11:31.303)
So how did you make that transition from like a guy that was struggling to monetize at first to then someone with a really impressive following like right now and this client portfolio of yours because I mean it's just incredible.
Daniel (11:48.756)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me, it's also really incredible. I don't take it for granted, of course. And so the, actually I started to monetize, like my first money I did on social media was with one -on -one courses as well. So I teached other people and I posted a lot of stories, like how, how how I did the edits, you know, like before and after, but every step. And then I already provided some value and people knew, okay, this guy knows something. I'm going to book a, like a one -on -one coaching. And I did a couple of them. And afterwards I published a tutorial, a portrait editing tutorial with all my techniques, actually. That was pretty good in my opinion, back in the days. So I made a couple of bucks off of that. And after that, I didn't do a lot of brand work at all. I didn't know how to reach out to brands and everything because this is another, I don't know, this is something different than you see or learn anywhere. So yeah, you don't know if you never asked someone, you don't know how to do it. And I think three, four or five years, like previously, In the past, it was more difficult to reach out to brands than nowadays. Yes.
TRIO Stories (13:18.094)
For sure, for sure. Yeah, definitely. I think that landscape has changed a lot and also just purely the quantity of opportunities in terms of brands wanting to work with not one creator or two creators where, you know, back in the day they would set a huge budget for like one production, which would then go on and for the next six months be on TV and be on internet paid ads. Now they want to work with 20 creators, 25 creators. Yeah, it's just a quantity of content that's needed. It's like the content demand is just growing every single day. So like they need to get that content from somewhere. So that leaves space for creators.
Daniel (13:51.732)
Yes, exactly, which is good and I also see like the brands are not only working with the big creators Anymore like like not only but they want like micro nano influencers like the smaller creators which have a solid base of audiences which they trust Yeah, so back to To this story. I forgot actually where I was or do you have a question right now?
TRIO Stories (14:24.491)
Yeah, I mean, I just have a before I have a follow up question, I have one kind of comment for our viewers. I don't know whether you will agree and whether Danny agrees, but your structure, the structure of your career is like fascinating because in my opinion, it's actually the reverse of most people's journey because what tends to happen is - Oh yeah, true. Yeah. People tend to start and for the first couple of years, they are trying to like post some photos to Insta reach out to brands and try and get some free, maybe like barter exchange work where they don't get paid, but they get a product. Then maybe they like, Oh, okay. I need to up my game. So I'll pay for some courses. And then they like, once they are good enough, once they have got a portfolio, once they have worked with some brands, then they might go on to build a course or do coaching. Whereas you seem to have like flipped that completely. And it seems to have worked amazingly.
Daniel (15:19.412)
Thanks, I never thought about that. Yeah, true. I don't know if I really want something I just learn it like I learned so fast and I go out every day to try it out and to get better.
TRIO Stories (15:39.305)
Okay, cool. So it was like a determination of the learning part and that's what drove it, I guess. That's cool. So - And discipline as well. Discipline, yeah. Yeah. It's always a big one.
Daniel (15:43.988)
Yes. Yeah. I think the discipline comes from like, because I was a gym rat pretty much earlier in the days and I had discipline. Actually, when I worked at the IT job, I came home at around like 6 .30 and at seven or so I had to the gym, come back at eight, eat something.
And then I edit the photos and it was like one o 'clock or something and next day go to work like that for a long time. Yes.
TRIO Stories (16:17.446)
It is a graft. You worked hard at that. Yeah, yeah. It's the stuff that you don't see behind people's Instagram is like how hard they work. I mean, like now, right in this moment, but also the many years before. I wanted to ask, because obviously our podcast today is talking about short form content, so I want to sort of start going towards that direction. I'm hoping that the answer to this question is going to really fuel the rest of the podcast. What made your socials like pop off because you know, you grew to like 180 ,000, 175 ,000 really quite quickly. And that is a very impressive following. So what was the trick?
Daniel (17:02.996)
So actually I was already like Let's say before I started with videos. I was at 125 K or something Only with photos because back in the days you didn't go viral without the reels you only had photo for post and Then I started with videos with reels and everything
TRIO Stories (17:11.525)
Okay, wow.
Daniel (17:26.26)
Because I stuck at 125K for a long time because I didn't pay attention to it anymore because I was working. I tried the freelance stuff. And then like in, when was it? In like 2021 or something, I was like, okay, I want to take this serious, you know? Like I had a couple brands coming in somehow, or I think I reached out to some brands.
They sent me free stuff still. It was free. And I really wanted to level up my content, be really good at it and really work with brands. So I gave it all. I went all in with my production. I asked friends to film me. I did a lot just to get good content, which people can relate or like. And then it started to pop off. Actually, I did a lot of memes in the beginning. That's... I did a lot of memes in the beginning. because people can relate to that stuff, as a photographer, as a videographer, the struggles. And these kind of videos went really good or viral or a lot of TikTok trends as well. I jumped on a lot of trends back then.
TRIO Stories (18:39.362)
Did you start with TikTok or was it Instagram?
Daniel (18:42.516)
No, it was actually Instagram because tick tock. Um, there was a guy, Alexander the great, um, and we talked a lot back, like when we did portraits and he started to say like, Oh, jump on tick tock. And also when Gary V was doing that stuff, the tick tock wasn't available for half a year, one year in Europe then. So I was like, okay, I can't even download it. So yeah, I can't jump on it.
TRIO Stories (19:06.592)
Oh.
Daniel (19:12.148)
right now. And then as soon as I came, I started but I didn't know what to post. No one knew what to post, right. And some TikToks went actually viral. So I gained like 60k in a couple of months or something pretty fast. Yeah, you didn't see that virality back then because this is pretty new. And usually you just post
TRIO Stories (19:28.927)
Wow. That's impressive, yeah.
Daniel (19:39.412)
photos on Instagram and you hope that you go viral or not not viral but you grow like with time right with consistency.
TRIO Stories (19:46.846)
You managed to time that really well with the boom of the short form content as well. Like I think you hit it at a great time. And also like, again, it's like your discipline to stick with it. Like. I have a question, Danny, but I have a question because I'm like super interested. Did you, because you mentioned that like you went to, you wanted to double down on the short form content, like.
Daniel (19:56.724)
Yeah, yes. I think so.
TRIO Stories (20:15.901)
you know, up the production value, you've got friends to film you, et cetera. Did you see that as like, this is the next step in my career? Or did you want to like, basically if I grow, I will be able to secure better brand deals. Or were you thinking I want to build my own personal, follow my own personal brand. And that was the main goal.
Daniel (20:37.3)
So the main goal, it's a good question because everyone has different intentions, right? The first goal of mine was actually to just grow, you know, like Instagram was my side hustle because I started freelancing in 2021 or something. Let me check. 2000. Yeah. I worked at the company for one, almost one year as a video producer full time.
And then I went freelance a hundred percent. And I was like, I don't need Instagram. Actually, I need to focus on client work. And that went on for two years or something. And then, and then I, as I said before, I wanted to double down on Instagram as well, because I had a quite big following. So I was like, I can actually utilize this to get brand deals and also do social media content. Right. So.
TRIO Stories (21:14.267)
Yeah.
Daniel (21:36.052)
That was, I think, like end of 2022. I started to work with Hohem, the Gimbals. This was my first, like, bigger paid gig, I think. Then I worked with Monogram, with PMI, with June as well, because they had this greater hub. So I applied. I was like, there was two products, the 5 -Ray 100 or the Weibo 3.
TRIO Stories (21:58.649)
Mm -hmm.
TRIO Stories (22:03.865)
Oh yeah.
Daniel (22:05.524)
And I actually wanted to do Weebly 3, but they gave me the 5 -ray. But yeah, so I really wanted to do a good video, so I asked some friends to film it at night actually, in the dark. And I think it was actually raining as well. But the timeline was pretty tight, so yeah, I did that. And then they liked it.
TRIO Stories (22:11.129)
Okay.
Daniel (22:34.26)
And they asked me a couple months afterwards, again, like, do I want to do another video about the newer 5Ray? And I was like, ah, again, a free work, actually. Actually, I don't want to, you know, I want to get paid for that stuff now. But I was like, yeah, okay, whatever. I will do it. Okay. They send it to me. I did it. I worked with a couple other brands in the camera industry. And then in February, they...
Like June actually offered me an ambassadorship like like this was huge for me, you know I like I always wanted to be something like that because I looked at all the creators ambassadors like getting paid Monthly to do content and I was like damn that's this sick I was shaking, you know, but but the number was not like I was not okay with the number on the contract, you know, like but the
TRIO Stories (23:15.702)
Yeah.
TRIO Stories (23:20.309)
That's awesome, yeah.
Daniel (23:31.316)
pay with a, how do you say, like salary kind of. And I was like, actually I want this, but it's too less, too little to do like here, to live here. And I just like, like went in and said, no, how about this? You know, does this work for you? And then she like, I was, I was like,
TRIO Stories (23:36.181)
Yeah.
Daniel (23:55.988)
sending the email, went to the gym, I was like, oh, please, how am I going to get a good reply, you know? And then, yeah. And then I saw the notification like a couple hours later, I think I was like, oh, I can't open the mail. I'm too scared, you know? And she said like, yeah, it's okay. It works for us. And I was like, yes, perfect. Yeah. And.
TRIO Stories (23:59.572)
Ah!
Sweater. We know the feeling. That's the thing. We really know the feeling.
TRIO Stories (24:13.076)
Hahaha.
TRIO Stories (24:18.547)
Nice. But Danny, I've got a question because you said that actually at this point, you know, the brands were still not expecting, but like proposing to work on a product exchange base for free essentially. And you had a following already at this point, you had like 120 ,000 following. Yeah.
Daniel (24:32.852)
Exactly.
Daniel (24:36.788)
Yes, more than that. I think, yeah, like 150, 160 something. Yeah. I know the numbers. Yeah.
TRIO Stories (24:38.835)
more than that. Yeah, it's insane. I think brands like, obviously they're getting better now, I think with offering to pay, but I think they will always try, no matter what size creator you are, I think we'll always try to get something for free first. Yeeah, I mean, just to kind of do like a takeaway here for our viewers, this is something that's like so important is being assertive and being able to say, like value your work, value your time, regardless of the size of your audience. Because like, look, even brands were coming to Danny, who was over a hundred thousand followers, which is like a level that we wouldn't even dream of at this point.
And they were still like hoping, you know, if we can get work for free, great. And obviously you kind of can't blame them, but at the same time, you know, as creators, we need to make sure that we're ready to say, like, look, just like that. I mean, Danny, that was awesome that you, even though you were stressing about it, you were like, no, this is how it's done. You like knew your worth and you went for it.
Daniel (25:58.484)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And yeah, as you said, it's right. Like the big creators, the numbers doesn't mean anything. Smaller creators can actually earn more than bigger, let's say, with the numbers creator. It doesn't mean you have a big number that you earn a lot from brand work as well.
TRIO Stories (26:13.313)
Yeah.
TRIO Stories (26:20.334)
But I think this is also a good point for creators when they're starting out. I always say that you should do work for free. Obviously not for free free, but in exchange for a product. Because I think that's where you grow those opportunities and those relationships. And we did the same thing with the brands that we work with. But you always argue the opposite. Yeah, I mean, yeah. I think that just as a rule, I like to say don't do...
You know, you've got to have some sort of, what do you say? But in practice, it's like. It does obviously depend and you know, it's a kind of case by case sort of situation. I wanted to ask Danny now about specifically the workload as a short form creator, because obviously as you doubled down, more opportunities came in that area. And so it's kind of a bit of a loop that fuels itself. So two questions kind of tied together.
Are you happy that you're now focusing on short form content and doing a lot of short form content? And do you find it like satisfying from a creative perspective to be working in this form, in this like media?
Daniel (27:34.612)
Yeah. So let me answer the second question first. So, um, as, as I said, like I was freelancing for the first two years without using Instagram, like social media a lot, like for doing work. So I was working with local clients mostly, and I just realized that I didn't like to do that so much because, Oh, do you hear me? Oh, wait. It's.
TRIO Stories (27:57.739)
lost some internet yeah but it's still recording so okay now we can hear you now I can hear you but you know we won't have lost any of that video we only have lost any of that video thanks to Riverside yeah so at this point
Daniel (28:04.34)
Oh, okay, okay, okay. Yeah, I restarted. Oh yeah, true, true, true. It's slow. Oh, I think, I think you want to do, oh, okay. You want to do the advertisement now. Okay.
TRIO Stories (28:19.466)
That's a perfect time. So, let's tell you about the sponsor of today's video, Riverside.
Daniel (28:30.26)
Oh, okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Perfect. Okay.
Oh, really? Um, yes. Okay. So as I said, I worked with a lot of local clients here for about two years without utilizing my social media accounts. And I did their work like how they wanted it, right? Like how their marketing manager sees the outcome and wanted it. And I realized that I didn't really like to work.
like that because I had my own style. I knew my stuff is good, but they don't want beautiful videos. Clients or business owners usually care about more like how's the return of investment? How are the numbers? Is this video going to like, uh, get good results for them in terms of business, right? So they don't care about, does it look good? So they don't pay you for like color grading or get good lighting or something like that.
TRIO Stories (29:26.408)
Yeah.
Daniel (29:33.876)
So I really realized that. So I was like, Oh, I actually don't like to work with these kinds of clients. They don't want to pay a lot. And then they are a kind of pain in the ass because they, they want a lot, but they don't want to pay a lot. So, yeah. And so working with brands, actually, they usually give you the freedom to work how you want to implant your own style, because you are going to present it to your audience. So.
TRIO Stories (29:48.615)
Yeah.
Daniel (30:02.58)
This is much more satisfying for me. Especially I really like that because they just give you the freedom because they trust you. They just give you the stuff here to whatever, just make it look good, right? For your audience, for us as well. You can, of course you can, it's not like you do like random stuff. They trust you, they see your work so they know what the outcome is. So it's a lot more satisfying to work like that.
TRIO Stories (30:28.87)
Yeah.
Daniel (30:32.468)
in my opinion.
TRIO Stories (30:33.892)
Yeah, definitely. That's like the best part about working with, I think, these type of creative brands where they, where you can really practice your creativity and then the trust is there to work together with. Yeah, I think that makes it much more satisfying. Yeah, and I think these brands are coming to work with you, for you and for your style. So, you know, that's, that's the big compliment. And I guess the big thing that makes it so much more rewarding, like, like you said.
Daniel (30:49.332)
Yes.
Daniel (31:03.316)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. This is like every artist's dream, I think. Every photographer, videographer, they want to work like, or most of them. I know still, I know some photographers, they do like a lot of corporate work or videographers. I don't know if they really like it or not, but they just like, or they don't have their own style, maybe they just want to make some money with some people, grow a company, et cetera. But that's okay.
TRIO Stories (31:25.154)
you
Yeah, I think also, yeah, of course, I think also a big reason is like the fear of change. I think a lot of people, you know, started in that way. Maybe a next number of years ago, they started in that direction because it's kind of the traditional way of starting. And then, you know,
that fear of, okay, now I have to let go of this stable income and try a new way of creating. I think that there's obviously a bit of risk attached with that and people are just generally risk averse, aren't they? They don't want to put the livelihood on the line. I think it depends as well because depending on like what kind of work you like, maybe you don't like the process of like coming up with the ideas. Yeah, true. So then...
having a client that tells you, okay, I want this, this and this, and then you just make it. Yeah. More the technical, like technical minded people. Yeah. There's lots of different ways to work out there. But yeah, what I said earlier, it's like about working with these like filmmaking photography type companies. It's just so satisfying because you can just flex those creative muscles and feel valued. And yeah. So talking about the work that is satisfactory and the work that brings you joy. What is your favorite ever piece of short form content and why? Like your favorite that you've ever made or the one that was most satisfying and rewarding as a creator.
Daniel (32:56.82)
Oh wow, that's a great question. I never thought about that one.
TRIO Stories (32:59.519)
That's hard.
Remember every single piece of content you've ever made and then pick one. It doesn't have to be the absolute best one, but like when I said that, surely a couple of things came to your mind, like a couple of bits that you remembered, you were like, yeah, I was proud of this one.
Daniel (33:15.732)
Short form content, wow, okay. There's a couple of them. I really like to do these kind of like travel or car stuff, you know? And I really like those videos where I did it with the sunset and everything. And some of these videos, I actually did a short list and everything and planned everything, got screen grabs.
TRIO Stories (33:30.398)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Daniel (33:58.132)
But I cannot say like one piece because it's too many, you know, if you do the short form content, it's too many pieces. And I think I'm not like the, I was a perfectionist in the beginning, but that stops you from publishing content. So sometimes I'm just like,
It's 80 % 90 % done. I'm just going to post it because I'm going to lose so much time for the last 20 % or something. So I just going to publish it. So I think short form content. I'm there's actually not a piece where I'm super proud of, you know, like, like, like, I put so much work in it to it. Maybe the ace. Oh, sorry.
TRIO Stories (34:27.867)
I guess that's the thing with short form content is like you said, if you absolutely perfected every tiny detail, you would never make anything. So it's not the point of short form content. Short form content was never meant to be absolutely polished perfect.
Daniel (34:52.998)
Yeah, I mean, there are creators, they put a lot of work into it, like Kyle Nutt, for example, you know him probably, he needs like one month for one video, but it's insane. It's so emotional. And it's so much work. Also, Dimitri, of course, he also puts a lot of work in it. But it's actually not short form content. It's like for longer form content that he just posted there usually.
TRIO Stories (35:09.113)
Yeah, but then you were going to say one piece of content, an ASUS piece, I think you were going to mention.
Daniel (35:31.796)
Oh yeah, I think the ASUS was not that bad in terms of like... It was kind of cinematic, different pieces with a voiceover and everything. But that kind of stuff doesn't give you like a lot of eyeballs on social media somehow, I think. But I like to do that kind of stuff.
TRIO Stories (35:52.664)
But so it sounds like what you're saying though is like this sort of higher production and the higher creative work from you results in you being more proud and attached to that piece rather than the traditional metrics like the eyeballs on Instagram.
Daniel (36:06.26)
Yeah, now your question is probably like what does make you more happy, right?
TRIO Stories (36:12.792)
Well, what does?
Daniel (36:17.492)
It's really hard. It's really hard. As a short form or social media content creator, you always look at the metrics. Some people say don't look at the metrics, just post it, do the next piece, post it, and then just forget it and get better and learn from the last, maybe like check the analytics, their intention graph and everything. But I think everyone looks at the numbers. Like you post it.
TRIO Stories (36:41.751)
Yeah.
Daniel (36:43.188)
After a couple hours, you check it. After one hour, you check it already. After a couple hours, next day, you check it. You check it every time. And if you don't get the numbers which you usually get, which is absolutely not in your control because the algorithm always changes, or the algorithms, because it's multiple usually, always changes and it's not in your control, maybe Instagram is down at that moment, or maybe it's like New Year's Eve or okay, maybe not New Year's Eve, but something like... differently is in another country. Yeah. And you don't hit the numbers and you're kind of sad, you know, because you put so much work in it and then it doesn't come out as you want it. So it's, it's yeah.
TRIO Stories (37:24.244)
Yeah, that translates with all content, I think, not just short form. It's just, it's always like, you feel really proud of a video and then like, it doesn't get the return of the views and then it's like, oh, actually, maybe it wasn't that great. And it's a tough process. Is the creator roller coaster, basically? Like, is the creator roller coaster, you know? Emotional torture.
Daniel (37:35.38)
Yeah.
Oh yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Yeah, I like the Disney movies.
TRIO Stories (37:50.067)
Yeah. But I mean, it's interesting because you've kind of spoken there about the, the, let's say like downsides or caveats of short form content. And I think with short form, because by nature, there's a lot more quantity of it. You experienced that roller coaster a lot more frequently, you know, like it's you're constantly on it. So this leads me to the question of short form versus long form, because do you.
still see the short form content you produce as a long term means to an end to become a long form artist or YouTuber or is short form. At the moment this is your end goal, this is where you're putting your eggs into this basket.
Daniel (38:39.412)
So I always wanted to be a youtuber as well. So I actually did start with YouTube back then in 2019 or 2020 I think with a lot of tutorials Photoshop tutorials especially I still do some YouTube videos, but it takes so much time for me to cut it to
TRIO Stories (38:54.706)
Mm -hmm.
Daniel (39:04.34)
Speak because short form content you can speak so fast, you know, like a couple sentences It's just 15 seconds or 20 or 60 seconds max usually and it's so easy to put out these kind of Little sentences, but for YouTube videos you really have to talk longer and More precise I think as well But I think long form content especially YouTube is to stay longer than short form like I the audience is more loyal, I would say. It's not random people popping in. Usually it's like a TV show. People come, like I expect a video every week or something from you and you just post it there. And it's like a loyal viewership rather than on like Instagram, like just random people. Sometimes it goes viral. People see it like random people. Maybe they bounce off afterwards. They just see it laugh and go off. But on YouTube, they watch your video, your video is like, I don't know, four to 10 minutes and they have to like you to actually, yeah.
TRIO Stories (40:11.666)
It's a bit more of a community vibe. I was actually just gonna ask that. I was gonna ask like, what's your experience of your following on Instagram? Is it like that you've created like a community there? Is it a place where people chat and hang out and like come back? And do you have regular people that you're like, oh yeah, you and you know, that kind of thing.
Daniel (40:13.204)
Yeah. Uh, so that's actually something very important on social media. It's a social media platform. So you should actually build a circle around you with like -minded people. Uh, I did that in the beginning and we always commented on each other's post, but the sad thing is also like, if you, if you post something not as good, they still say, Oh, it's fire. You know, like, Oh, it's good. But, but you.
Sometimes you really want to have the feedback, the like, um, authentic feedback so you can improve because if, if everyone says it's good, it's good, it's good. You think, oh, okay, it's fine. Right. I don't have to improve, but, um, yeah. Okay. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
TRIO Stories (41:20.882)
Well, now I know that now I know that every single piece of content, this is trash Danny, you can do better. Everyone go roast Dani
Daniel (41:33.268)
Yes, now everyone's going like, oh, okay, I see what you do. No, no, just kidding. But sometimes it's like that, sometimes. I don't say like on every piece, but sometimes also I don't produce only high quality content, sometimes it just sucks. I think, yeah, okay, let's just put it out.
TRIO Stories (41:56.05)
It's mostly high quality content. It's very high quality content.
Daniel (41:58.964)
I have a couple reels which I think like oh my god it's actually bad but I just put it out so I already know it's not gonna perform well but whatever then it looks differently in my mind and then I put it out and it's like or I edit or I film it and it turns out different so yeah yeah
TRIO Stories (42:20.498)
that always happens. Even when you don't expect it or you think something's going to work really well and then it doesn't and you're like oh, it's disappointing. Yeah, it can work both ways. Oh sorry, yeah, what were you going to say?
Daniel (42:28.724)
Yeah. But yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Just the last part. Like it's, it's, it's important to build that circle on Instagram or on social media in general. So people come back and you go back to them and motivate each other. And also it's good for the engagement for the like reach and everything. Um, but there are actually some people, they just come almost every time. And I really appreciate that that they always come and comment and also send me some DMs, ask me stuff and everything. And now you can also do these broadcast, I think, channels on Instagram. Unfortunately, they cannot answer, they can just like vote. But it's not that much of a community building on Instagram itself, I would say, if you don't have it on an external platform.
TRIO Stories (43:17.874)
Yeah. It's tough. I think social media, like in general, Instagram especially, it's very, very hard to build that community. It's a lot of like this... It's more presenting stuff than like how on Twitter or X. It's more like conversations rather than like, here's my work. But it's actually really nice though how you described it still that you still have loyal people coming back, that you've had those relationships, that you've got that community. Because I think now, because short form is kind of like, oh, short form content, it's like, at constant, it's everywhere. You don't really consider that community as much, I don't think, but it's really nice to hear that that's still possible, that's still there.
Daniel (44:05.396)
Yeah, I think so. It's still possible. I mean, you don't really catch the personality on short form content usually because it's so fast, right? You just tell your sentences. You don't really get to know the person. So it's quite difficult to build the community also on the platform itself because you don't have really the Instagram doesn't offer something to do that. Very good.
TRIO Stories (44:30.898)
Yeah, it's more of a like, you know, you're throwing stuff into like the ether and then hoping some people stick and it's hard. But I was going to ask, oh sorry. I'll let me go first. Let me go first, because I'll forget it and then we'll never get it. We'll get the answer. I wanted to ask you how you managed to stay so consistent. Like short form, it's a lot of content that you have to put out, like a lot of individual projects that you have to like start and then finish. How do you manage to do that?
Daniel (45:06.74)
Well, that's a question almost everyone asks. Like how do you manage time, you know, like working with clients to social media content and everything. Actually, I'm pretty bad at planning content. I'm not that like these social media manager people, you know, gurus on Instagram, they say like, yeah, they plan like five pieces of content every week and already have the content for the next week. Sometimes I just wake up.
In the morning I have an idea, I was like, okay, I'm going to film this and I'm going to publish this, you know, like, so sometimes it's just like that. Sometimes I batch create content. I have like, I do my research and what is like popular right now, what kind of maybe AI software or software in general, because these are diff like they are different kinds of contents, right? Like, like the memes, which is sometimes pretty easy to do. because you don't have to talk, you just have to like, like reproduce something relatable, which is easy to catch. Or you do like talking head educational content, which is a little bit more difficult because you have to do your research. Or you do like tutorials without talking or you do like before afters or just like the visual cinematic stuff, right. But I really don't plan my content too much just for the talking heads. Usually, I just script it out.
And I set up my camera and I do like two, three, four pieces of that talking head stuff. And actually I also started to work with an editor last year. So I sent it off to him and he just added that stuff, the talking head stuff, because this saves me so much time.
TRIO Stories (46:50.322)
Yeah, that's awesome. Like, delegating is such a huge part of growing as a creator and it's so hard to do to let go of that creative control.
Daniel (46:54.1)
Yeah. Yeah. I also had some downsides of that because it's not, not everyone is like, uh, how do you say, uh, the responsiveness of them? Like, like you don't get it. Sometimes you ask like what's going on when, when can I expect it? Because the client is waiting, you know, and maybe the person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
TRIO Stories (47:14.226)
Yeah, of course, but you'll be relying on someone else, aren't you? So of course there's that element.
Dani I wanted to ask before you we moved on, I wanted to ask like on average could you estimate off the top of your head like if you were to average out how long does it take from the planning stage to the posting stage how long does it take you for a short form piece of content?
Daniel (47:27.412)
For memes, it's pretty fast. Yeah, let's say the talking heads because these are pretty consistent. Do the research and do the scripting, et cetera. Sometimes like four, five hours, like research scripting, but not only one piece. If you like research, you research a couple pieces, right? So you don't just...
TRIO Stories (47:47.666)
Just like if you were to average it across all of the types.
Daniel (48:09.94)
say like after half an hour, oh, I have this, I want to do this. You're just still researching and then you script all of them together and then you batch like create it. So maybe one piece of content maybe takes like one to three hours depending on like how much you talk or how much research do you want to do. Yeah.
TRIO Stories (48:29.368)
Okay. Nice. I love, I love your kind of work of how consistent it is. Like, you know what you're doing. You know, you're like niche. You know the work that you have to do. Like the videos between this amount and this amount of seconds. You were just able to like identify all the categories of content that you do. So like in your head, it sounds like you very much got this like broad vision of, okay, I do this content, this content, this content, this content, this content. Like, this is what I need for this one. This is what I need for this one. And I think that's a really cool.
It's efficient. Yeah, very efficient, streamlined way of looking at it.
Daniel (49:01.012)
haha
Yeah, it's also important to know like, which content is made for what, like, you know, the outcome of the content, because like the memes or the yeah, the memes, let's say the memes or the trends are actually not grow following, especially because people maybe see it laugh and then bounce, right? See the next one. But it's go, it can go viral. People see it. So, so it has a lot of reach. So many people see it, but If you do like a talking head or something, you like put out your professionalism so people trust you more so you can, so they maybe come back because they see, oh, this person is giving some value. So I'm going to stay right for the next time. Maybe I'm going to follow, but, but for the trendy stuff, maybe not. Yeah.
TRIO Stories (49:43.925)
Of course. Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. I think, you know, it's time to wrap up. So I've got an interesting question to kind of end on. How do you see the future of short form content? Because obviously we've seen, you know, TikTok kind of come and shake up the whole industry. I mean, now it's everywhere. YouTube shorts, reels, everything. Do you think this. current format is here to stay or do you think we're going to go in a different direction? What's your view on that?
Daniel (50:19.668)
So is this question only for TikTok now, like dedicated to TikTok? Ah, okay. Okay. Yeah. So yeah, let's say for TikTok, I just see a big shift right now, like at the moment. Like people are tired of these fast pacing edits of talking heads with the B -rolls and the effects and everything. They want to see more authentic stuff. So...
TRIO Stories (50:24.213)
No, no, any generally generally, yeah, or any short form is that what you're asking?
Daniel (50:47.572)
just talking in front of the camera, making some mistakes, et cetera, and not the perfect talking heads. So maybe it shifts in the right direction, like YouTube a little bit. So you just see the flaws of the creator, et cetera. And also, I don't know if this is like really good on TikTok right now, or it's like getting more reach, but people say they want you to post horizontal content on TikTok.
TRIO Stories (51:16.498)
Okay, wow.
Daniel (51:16.724)
it gets more reach. And also they made the videos like you can upload up to 10 minutes I think now on TikTok, which is weird because also I checked the comments of course, if I see these pieces of videos, I check the comments, people say like, okay, if I see a horizontal video, I skip it immediately. And also like people say like, I'm not here for these Horizontal videos because you have to click a button to make it horizontal and then you have to watch it like YouTube Yeah Exactly, it's so weird. I don't know but still they have a lot of reach the Horizontal videos I saw so far so it's a little bit weird because the retention rate doesn't seem like it's big because people are bouncing off it seems like or maybe they are typing the comments and
TRIO Stories (51:47.666)
It's a commitment. TikTok is the opposite of a commitment
Daniel (52:09.396)
It already takes like a minute or so and then yeah, but as you know, TikTok, Instagram, they are pushing out like new features. Also on Instagram, they just, I think they are releasing a new feature to upload videos up to six minutes, three minutes. I'm not sure. It's not available for everyone yet. Also not for me, I think, but I saw it. So.
TRIO Stories (52:37.901)
think, Danny, do you think that, you know, because a lot of these platforms are releasing the different features and they often like create something and they hope it takes off because obviously they want people to use their app. But what do you think from the audience and from like people perspective, not from the people behind the apps, what do you think people are craving like in terms of, in terms of content, like what sort of thing you think it's going to be popular or successful in the coming months.
Daniel (53:08.852)
I think Short Form Content is here to stay. Definitely. I think so. Yeah. Also, yeah, I think for brands, for creators, for everyone, it can be frustrating, of course, if you don't hit the numbers, if you don't go viral in the beginning, but everyone has to be consistent. You can't like, just pop off from one day, but it's, I think it's also difficult to stand out as a person now, like for a new creator, because... almost everything is already there. Like, uh, there are some creators which are like unique, you know, like, um, Adrian, maybe you know him. Like OMG, Adrian, he does like these talking head videos, short form contents kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, OMG, Adrian, he talks into the camera and he does it usually outside with different angles and very nice productio because he's talking like casually like it feels like you're with him there like also the oh i forgot his name the the bodybuilder the big one sam sulek Yeah, his videos are almost like uncut. He just talks in the gym and it feels like you're with him in the gym and he's going viral because of that. So, so this is what I say. The shift is going towards that direction, I think, to more authenticity.
TRIO Stories (54:42.125)
And I think, yeah, definitely. I was just gonna say like, it's the authentic videos that you wanna see now as a viewer. Like I'm kind of done with the old school, this is my life. This is like my best life. I think people just don't, they've outgrown it. They just don't wanna see the bullshit anymore. I think so. So I think there's going to be a drop in like this aspirational content, you know.
Daniel (54:54.26)
Oh yeah, the perfect life. Yeah.
TRIO Stories (55:08.813)
go to Dubai and take photos with lambos and all that kind of thing. I think that's going to have a drop in this more sincere form. It will be more popular. Everything cycles. So it'll probably be that like for a while it'll be this authentic thing. And then because the flashy stuff will stand out again, then it'll be more popular. It just comes and goes.
Daniel (55:27.828)
Yeah. It can change again. Just as fashion. It can come and go. Yeah.
TRIO Stories (55:33.709)
Exactly. Danny, one last final thing. Do you have one, like one single golden piece of advice for somebody who wants to like level up their short form content or start doing short form content?
Daniel (55:49.172)
Yeah, sure. So everyone wants some shortcuts. They always want to be like falling out of the clouds and just produce crazy content, but that's not going to happen. So everyone starts somewhere. So some people, they think, oh, I'm not going to post this or what camera should I get to start? But you can actually start with every camera you have. So you can...
learn the basics actually like camera angles and everything lighting and then you can step up to better gear later but you have to start somewhere and everyone does crappy content at the beginning but nobody cares so you just post it post it you get better every time people maybe might be roasting you on online but you can't you can't take that serious sometimes people just like are internet warriors they just put their comments in maybe like
user one, two, three, four, uh, eight, seven, something like that, you know? And so you, you, you cannot take this serious. Don't take that personally. Uh, just put out content. And if you really want to take it serious, uh, really treat it like a business, not just like a hobby or something like on the side. Um, and if you want to work with brands, maybe even consider to invest in some gear to buy from that. brand and do like these kind of spec works maybe so they can notice you or maybe other brands can notice you. Yeah.
TRIO Stories (57:20.806)
That's great. And I love what you said as well, just like to distill that for our listeners. I love what you said about, sometimes I know this is not.
amazing piece of content or I don't think this will do well or this hasn't come out as I had hoped but I'm gonna post it anyway because I think that attitude is great you're still practicing that I've started something I'm going to finish it by by taking it to the end and post it and who knows maybe it does better than you expected maybe it doesn't but that's what builds consistency yeah it's the practice of consistency like starting a project and ending a project I think it's something a lot of creative people struggle with actually ending a project. So that's why I said how amazing it was with you that you're so consistent and you managed to do that like so often with the short form. Yeah, it's very aspirational.
Daniel (58:00.82)
Thanks. Oh, there's something I want to add as well. I just read a book, uh, still like an artist. Maybe you probably know that, right? Everyone knows that. Oh, no. Uh, it's pretty great. So I actually did this before already. So you actually like, like watch other creators content, which you like, right. And you kind of try to reproduce that kind of stuff. And then you put your own spin on it, like, like maybe 10%, 20%. Uh, and this is how you like.
TRIO Stories (58:20.102)
I've heard it. I haven't read it. We've heard about it.
Daniel (58:00.82)
its about developing your own style because you then then you know, like the basics, how that creator actually took it. And then next time you can add your own spin to it, but don't like just take it one by one word by word, but just try to reproduce it and then put your own spin on it.
TRIO Stories (58:56.934).
Yeah. Well, just like with regards to that, when we have ideas for a reel, sometimes we will say, oh, we'll just do a just a Danny's content. Shall we do it in his style? Because, yeah, like we've absolutely loved your short form content and it's definitely something that we aspire to. I mean, the other day, the one that you made where it was the girl and you stitched the video. Bart would not shut off about that video all day. Spot on. Amazing, Danny. Loved it. Yeah, and that's it. Steal like an artist. Awesome.
Daniel (59:42.548)
Yeah, I saw that in another niche and then I was like, okay, this I can take this into the camera audience. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I see that a lot, like a lot of trends in other niches. And then I put it into the like camera relatable stuff. Yeah.
TRIO Stories (59:56.23)
Nice and that's why you're smashing it. You're doing amazing. Well thank you so much Danny for your time. We appreciate you coming on to speak to us so much. It's been a really fun chat and hope you enjoyed it too.
Daniel (01:00:03.604)
Thank you so much.Absolutely, thank you so much for having me here, it was a pleasure.
TRIO Stories (01:01:59.782)
We really hope you enjoyed listening and watching, hopefully, to this episode. It's been a lot of fun. If you enjoyed it, please rate us five star on Spotify or wherever you're listening. There's got to be some buttons to like or follow us, whatever. Just do all the good stuff. We'll appreciate it. And go find Just Do Danny as well. His Instagram, you can binge his content. Yes, links to Just Do Danny will be in the description and he's an amazing artist, so check him out. Love you all. Thanks for watching. See you in the next one. Listening. Hear you in the next one. Spotify. You'll hear us in the next one. Apple Podcasts. Bye. Love you. Bye.